'Amnesty International, why you need to cover people's mounth secretly, what do you fear? what are you manipulating? What conspiracy you have been engaged? What difference is your censorship and the secrecy and the very same thing being critised by your in some other nations? '
-By thinkagainagain.
Days ago, I registered
http://www.thechinadebate.org/ as it claims to be a free platform for different voices on human rights issues in China, but I later realized Amnesty International imposes a very strong yet secret censorship on this forum.
They using a deceptive method to censor the forum - double view for the author of the post and others forum visitors. This means, when people post some messages and they can see those post in their view, but others may not see those post. If we do not log in or ask a friend with a different username to check, we may realized some of the post are not really published through the forum. Those unseen post are filtered out by the moderator from Amnesty Internetional. Ironically, one of topic of the forum is attacking the Internet Censorship and one question Amnesty Internetional ask is 'Is internet free for everyone to use?' I want to ask AI the same question.
some of my posts became the victim of the strong censorship, but it just confirmed one thing, those posts DO include sensitive information that Amnesty Internationl would not like public see, it links to their dark secret . AI, you are the world largest propoganda machines of ethnic discrimination.
. Let me show you what has not been allowed to published on the forum. (Notes added on 5 Aug, I checked today and notice some censored post listed below has been allowed to release )
you do not have to login to view those pages, go to check your post, maybe they are censored too.
http://www.thechinadebate.org/en/?p=316http://www.thechinadebate.org/en/?p=319http://www.thechinadebate.org/en/?p=300http://www.thechinadebate.org/en/?p=298http://www.thechinadebate.org/en/?p=313under this thread, this post was censored
http://www.thechinadebate.org/en/?p=316--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thinkagainagain - August 1st, 2008 Comment
I am glad to see some intellegent new comments, AI and some so called human rights groups, please stop fool the public by your money oriented campaign, I was so deeply involved in advocacy movement, so I know well about what is happening in some international organization.
please tell the truth!
Like this case, for very long AI campaign has been single China out without sufficent evidence. it either focus on portrait a few cases or based on total amount of any issues. Those method ignores the big picture in the country and is unscientific and totally biased.
Some may say, AI targets to Chinese government, but not Chinese people, this view is as naive as 3 years Child. It means they know nothing about China.
The government is consisted of officers, those officers are Chinese people, they have family they have friends they have contacts throughout the country, you can not seperate the government from Chinese people, do you think Chinese government is that such a evil class hang over the public? If this is the case, there would already be another revolution! The government is improving on the day to day basis, Chinese history is VERY different from the one of the west, it take time for people to experiment which is the right direction. As a matter of fact, even on those most accused historical issues, such as cultural revolution or the unrest of 1989, there ARE divided opinions within the Party, many key people involved in those historical issue has already gone, and there are alway many good officers dedicate their life to help the people since 1949.
Diversity in China is an important fact, Some western scholar believe there may be more 100 ethinic groups if caculate on western standard, many people accuse China including AI completely do not aware the complexity within this country is to such a great extend and has judge China merely based on the stereotypic image they herited from the propoganda of cold war and the colonized history of China.
When groups like AI run negative campaign against China in particular when they taking adventage of public event like Olympic, it not only hurts the goverment, hurts the images of China, it also hurts every one in the country.
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1) AI are most well know on accusing China without scientific evidence
2) People from China account for about 20% of world population,for what you have done in the past, AI you are undoubtly world largest propoganda machines of ethnic discrimination.
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What a shame, as a ‘human rights’ group, you commited one of the most serious offence to human rights on this planet!
This remind me the forced cultural assimilation posed on many aboriginal/native people in the different parts of the world, in Australia, in the America.
If AI want to continue muddle the fingers in the country, I have recommandation for your team members, please do like many westerns , go to the country, study the language, the history and the culture and perform scientific research before you launch any campaign. I been living in this country for many years, but yet, I can not say I have known enough about it.
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thinkagainagain - August 1st, 2008 Comment
In response to the biased campaign of some human rights organization against the disadvantage ethinic group, Cultural Peace Group is formed,It is “a network of people who care about world peace and appreciate the diversity of different cultures. Many serious conflict in the world is rooted in cultural misunderstanding. To make the world a better place we 1)promote cultural respect 2)facilitate the communication between different cultures 3)improve the rights of disadvantage ethinic groups. Contact us:
CulturalPeaceGroup@gmail.com ”please visit the webpage for more information
http://culturalpeace.blogspot.com/--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
thinkagainagain - August 2nd, 2008 Comment
hello js, one of my good friend is from India, my friends surname is Ganguli, I admire traditional indian culture, religion value I have been study quiet a lot of it, I always love to talk with my friend about this kind of things, Its truly a widsom of human civilization, as you say Vegetarianism is such a wonderful idea, I have no disagreement with you on those topic. but I also know from my friend and my study that the british influence is strong in Indan, almost every Indian speak English. Please note, the information you based on judge China is mainly original from English speaking world and its connection in other european country, all those european country share a close cultural tie (just look at the similarity and difference between languages) and view on issuse. If you know Chinese language as good as English, I AM SURE you will have different opinins on those issues. It is not there is no transparency at all, there are lots of free literatures text on different Chinese issues out there, in particular many are online, it including voice favor or against government, Chinese people have good chance make their own judgement by those diversed information - but simply because those huge amount of information are in Chinese they can not be read and understood by most of you.
Wikipedia can be seen as a place of free speech, if you check the Chinese page on those sensitive issues, such as 1989 or Tibet, you will see lots more information you never heard in English speaking world, and you will be so suprised by what you have seen. Now many website provide automatic translation service, like Google, Wndows Live, you can use these tool to read those Chinese pages, please remember wikipedia is mainly written by people outside China as people say Chinese government censor it. You do not have to trust Chinese government, but you can put more bet on wikipedia.
I am not going to repeat those information on wikipedia, but I just want to illustrate an example, before communist Party enter Tibet, when it is under Dalai Lama , there was an SLAVERY class in their society, SLAVE! what does this mean?? Shocking uh? and the Religious leader was the head of this kind of soceity, was this system compatible with human rights or love and peace? Where is the freedom of the slaves? But have you ever heard this piece of very important information in the English world before? please verify it yourself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_classes_of_Tibet
One theory say Tibet is the fence prevent Communist expend to the west. I do not want to comment on it, please think by yourself.
When you ask Tibetan opinion on the issue, please do not only ask those a few formal slave owners or their associates like Dalai Lama, its no doubt they would have lost enomous control after the incidence therefore they would not favor the event, please also ask those many slaves who has been set free from the system by the communist party.
Back to this topic, just like this case of death pentaly, China is not so bad on this issue at all, but they make people feel this way, they list China on the top, they can lie on these issues, they could have lied on other past issues.
Be critical about anything what you have heard about China in the past, in the time when free speech were less possible than the Internet age, there are much more room for people using money and power to influence media and distort the truth.
To a great extend, you are also only given the information 'someone' want to give you, You human rights is also undermined by those propoganda machine.
We should find truth by ourselves, Internet provid people an oppotinity to search truth, please make the best use of it. If we want to know the truth, we need to listen voice from two sides! Have you ever listened the story from Chinese sides carefully? and directly without a media in between?
I never say China is perfect, and I am fully aware this, just like many other nation. I have been send quiet a lot suggestion book to the government help them improve. if you read my previous post carefully, you will know my position. But if you really want to find out the degree of perfectness of a nation, please perform scientific research, math it will help you find the truth.
My key focus here is pointing out the ethinic discrimination behind all these so called human rights campaign.
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thinkagainagain - August 2nd, 2008 Comment
wall_b - August how do you know Pyongyang and Tehran are safe cities (because of the authrority control, this is your underlining meaning)
Have you been there? do you know people from there? have you done scientific research about the security? I know a few Iranians and have done research in this country. Be critical about anything you heard about these two nations, there could be enormouse lies about them too. I know for sure certain media images about Iran is lie.
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thinkagainagain - August 2nd, 2008 Comment
thanks hobbes for extend my ‘number game’ which give further information, in consideration the political interests, I think its fair to say the data you provide, rank 5 per capital,is the up limit because the date is estimated by a US group, and mine as the bottom limit because the data is originated from Chinese government, so we have an confidence interval of the real situation now. The real rank would very much likely to be in between the two limits, between rank 5 to rank 28.
But it only confirm one thing, China is not the worst on the issue, but China is portraited in this campaign as the top offender and is listed on top of the rank of those human rights group, this is the very definition of discrimination!
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Under
http://www.thechinadebate.org/en/?p=298
Should peaceful protests be banned?
thinkagainagain - August 2nd, 2008 Comment (offensive?)
A fundermental flaw of this talk is, it does not aware any statment is based on a set of conditions/assumptions, this kind of absolute statment ‘peaceful protests should not be banned’ is always wrong. Aware the assumption of your statment is basic quality of any scientist and anyone involve in the academia.
If anyone have ever written a scientific paper, you should know first thing one should aware and declare is the assumptions, ie the condition in our statment.
So I totally oppose the statment of ”all peaceful protests should not be banned’ , think of this example, ’suppose potential earthquak is treaten a region, the government want people to leave, but some people still want to have peacful protest on issues and do not like to leave’ . should those protests be allowed ? =)
There are be many dimension of the realty, many things can not be expected and understood in once own cultural value system.
AI, please do not live in your own universe and using your own univeral law to design the life for people in the other universe, it will not work. To China a stable social environment is the priority for the well being therefor freedom of all people, it will reduce poverty and improved the standards of life, so you should understand why China will have slightly different practise than your nations.
If someone can not understand a society based on a slightly different set of laws and is still working, it maybe because,
1)the person is not well informed and he/she does not have imagination and an open mind.
2)Or deep down the person is racist and just want use human rights to execise his/her power over the others. If this is the case, please, mind your own bussiness.
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thinkagainagain - August 2nd, 2008 Comment (offensive?)
js, can you please give a few examples, tell me in this world people from which nation have the fortune to be fully responsible for the nations policies? If this is achieved in any nation, it would be definitely the heaven on the earth and there would be no need of any social advocay.
Control and being secrecy of governments is universal in our world at current stage, the difference maybe some nation get more money and technology to have a better coverup, so nice and innocent people like you don't see the evidence of their misbehavior very often, and subsequencely brian washed to believe some issues in some nations are worse than yours.
Problem of many people on similar issues is they assume their way of doing things is the best, in the cultural point of view, difference does not imply superiorty or inferiorty, its like things in different dimensions, you can not compare.
Do you think the you way you talk and sleep is superior than a Cat? If you do not think so, why you can not imagin you fellow human brother from other ethnic group have their own way of life that you should not interference and judge?
Please read collected articles of cultures and anthropology on CPG website http://culturalpeace.blogspot.com/
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On 5 Aug, I found this post under death penalty was cencored.
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Thanks moderator for releasing some of my posts, please also release those posts about cultrual peace group, why those tibetan project can have a link the forum but CPG can not have?
Restate my points
1) I support abolishing death pentaly by a progressive approach
2) I see scientific research as the only method to understand the situation in any nation
3) I totally oppose to rights campaign like this without a solid evidence and scientific research as its support
wall_b - Augus, I agree with you totally, since neither you nor me nor AI , any rights group has performed conclusive research on those topic, we should say, we don't know much about this issue.
If we don't know much, we should say we don't know much, this is honesty, we should not run a campaign when we don't really know much at the issues at all.
AI please dont use prejudice as your evidence.
Don’t say by falsefy the fact you attracte more attention on the issue, therefore improve the human rights, the truth is the ethinic discrimination you caused by this negative campaign has greatly over weighted the little positive influence you might have on those rights issues. Over all you are doing more bad than good to the world.
Because your biased campaign and unjustice method, taking advantage of the game, The largest anti-oversea-bias website anti-cnn.com (a household name in China) has open a special column on its homepage to exposure all lies and unjustice you have done to China.
http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/cn/forum-54-1.htmlNow AI has become a very negative name for many Chinese people from different levels of the society, 20% world population do not endose you as a organization of good intention, and I know from research there are much more ethinic group in different nations oppose your interference of their domestic issues in the name of human rights.
How can you continue claim you are an INTERNATIONAL organization?
Do you have representative from all those nations you work with? Learn something from UN, otherwise, don’t call yourself INTERNATIONAL.
AI you are the biggest loser in this anti-Olympic campaign.
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I will report again if new posts been censored by Amnesty Internationl .
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